HondaRsLow

so this summer i plan on getting a motor swap done.

i want to get a K20 swap done, does anyone know how much that swap will run me to get it on my 95' integra LS.

and is there any other engines i should rather get then the k20. im looking to get alot of power out of the engine.

Vida

iTrader: (2)

How much money do you have to spend.

JDM_overdose

iTrader: (9)

Kept this as a bookmark. Not it will come in handy

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2059720

roughly 4000$ for the complete engine and tranny. then another 1200$ for stuff u need.

HondaRsLow

i kinda wanted to only spend 6 - 7G on da full swap including labor.

is dare a cheaper engine swap that is worth while and will give me a lot of power. i was looking at a h22a and it goes for around 3G, how much am i looking at in total with the labor?

D.T.P

iTrader: (3)

is your motor still good? either way whether or not, you can get another LS engine, then spend half of the budget on turbo build, and the other half on block build. you will be much much much faster than any k20 for same price.

FatTeg

iTrader: (-1)

stay away from the H22, i'd go K20A2 or k20r.
scrid3r has a good point about the turbo setup, but if its a DD and you want to drive it in the winter than go with a solid NA setup, unless you spend more than 6grand.

nizmo

iTrader: (7)

type-r! best sounding engine by far!!!! easier to swap and less coin than a K

KjB

i wouldnt bother with the k swap the K20R motor alone is your budget plus there are quite a bit of mods that have to be done to install the motor, and i think the h22 would be waste...
like scrider stated you could go n/a build which would cost you about half of what you would pay for a k swap.
you could go type-r swap which is easily covered with you budget and is a simple out and in swap, i can get a complete r motor for about 2500 plus a couple hundred for labor.
you could even go gs-r but with your budget i say the n/a build and type-r swap would be best.
these are cheaper and easier swaps then the k and could definitely beat the k
good luck with the build, just keep in mind YOUR the driver so make sure YOU like what you drive...these are just our opinions the final say is yours

AcuratePaul

iTrader: (8)

I had the same delima as you last year...didnt know what motor too get...
The k20 will cost you lots and is a lot to mod...
you can build your current motor or get a ls v-tec for cheap and build and turbo like others said above...
GSR will run you some coin but have good power but for a bit more you can get the Type R motor..
The type R motor is an easy swap but its not a perfect match since i got the Type R motor and swapped it in myself last september...for the type r motor i had to get a new exhaust cuz my stock wouldnt fit you can modify your old one but recommend getting new exhaust as for labour swaps for B-Series motors will run you 500-700 as side job and maybe closer to a grand at shops...all depends where you go...my total cost of swap was around $5000 grand including new front end and i did it myself...

in the end its all what you want to do Good Luck.

D.T.P

iTrader: (3)

I think my opinion was misunderstood. Never ment n/a build. Imo building all motor is a waste for the money.
What I ment to say was, build the bottom end with better/stronger rods, lower compression pistons, new bearings, then spend the rest of the money on a turbo setup.

I guess another unanswered question is what kind of power are you looking to get? You can piece together a kit and slap it on a healthy ls motor and run just as reliable as any motor swap. Its all in the tune. Stock ls can take 270-280whp without a problem. I'm sure such power is not needed for daily driving so an electric boost controller could help solve this problem. Turn down the boost for street and turn up the boost for track or whenever you feel like giving it some more juice. Good luck achieving numbers like this with any N/a motor build with your budget. If you use your money wisely, built bottom end and turbo setup is do-able. Depending on the turbo of choice and build of the block, you could hit 350-400whp.

So let us know what power you are lookin to get, and if nothing too crazy, the rest of the money could be used for better suspension/brake setup.

Burfy

iTrader: (2)

Yea if you got that kind of coin I agree with everyone saying go turbo. Build an ls/vtec turbo if you want something cool.. But drop a grand into the bottom end, upgrade your suspension/steering/brakes and you'll enjoy what you get.

HondaRsLow

i feel as if my current motor is about to give up, still pulls hard, but i think timing belt or water pump is going. the motor is burning oil. so i thought i would just swap the motor. im dont really like b-series vtec engines, but i mite consider the type r. how much am i looking at if i were to get a ls or b20 and build it to push 200whp NA.

Spike

iTrader: (5)

Buy another B18B with low kms on it, and boost it and built it a little. For 6-7K you should be around 400 hp for that. Like what has been said before, your going to be spending 6-7K on just a K20 and transmission, plus what ever else you need for it, really not worth it, but that's just me.

kartheegan

i agree with most ppl here..ls with boost is probably the best bet..cost wise and power wise..spending money a k20 is waste your spending too much for not as much power as you can get with a ls with boost for a cheaper price..all up to you its your car

JustinDM

Ok you seem like you have your heart set on a N/A build. A K swap will not be in your budget. I can guarantee you that. Even if you somehow accomplish that swap w/ your budget, most likely it will be a hack job, or you swapped in a k20a3.

If your goal is 200whp B swap, that is reachable. A stock B18cR/5 will pump out 180-185whp. 200whp can be reached w/ some head work and an untouched bottom end. From a conservative estimate that will just be within your budget.

If you want to buy a LS or B20 motor and build it to reach 200whp, I would suggest a Frankenstein build. I am not going to elaborate on that further. You can research that on your own. However since they are different honda engine components part together the reliability aspect is lacking, if you just slap them together and call it a day. To make it reliable, you will have to build it.

Both these options will run about the same amount, which falls within' your predetermined budget.

However I would recommend you to consider running boost. It is pretty fun to drive. The power to cost ratio: boost>N/A

HondaRsLow

i was looking at prices and i can get a jdm b18b for around $500 from a JDM shop. what would be the best tranny to bolt on to it, because my current tranny grinds in 3rd. i heard that the b16 tranny isnt that great for highway driving. how is the gsr tranny?

JustinDM

depends on what your plans are. If it's N/A the shorter the better. If it's boost, an LS, or GSR would be good, but it depends on your setup.

Vida

iTrader: (2)

You can always rebuild the tranny. The GSR tranny is nice, same with Type R

I say with the LS motor, just get the LS tranny for it. or maybe rebuild your current one. as for highway driving? the LS 5th gear is perfect for highway driving as it revs right around the 3k mark. So if anything, get a GSR tranny, and put in an LS 5th gear and your golden

HondaRsLow

im going to be boosting later on, im going to build the LS first.

Vida

iTrader: (2)

Alright, do alot of research first though. Sounds like youre just piecing something together without knowing much about what it can or can't do. But building up your LS is sounding pretty good

JustinDM

As Vida says do your research, and above all... tune!!! Unless you like a 6-7k paper weight.

Word of advice... collect everything first, and then put it all together in one shot. It will save you some money on labour.

non-VTEC

B20/VTEC would be the cheapest route IMO and give you the most power in a B-series platform. (with the right parts of course)

plus it's easier to drop in any B-series engine into that DC chassis. much less headaches and time doing that swap over a K.

the K-swap is nice but is quite labor intensive and it will eat up allot of time and money to just have it installed correctly. yes they make great power but it will cost you a fortune as parts for the K are close to double the cost of the B-series stuff.

AcuratePaul

iTrader: (8)

if your worried about highway driving the Type R tranny makes it rev high...cruising at 120-130 im hitting 4-4.5k on highway kills gas.

JustinDM

hey Paul what final drive are you running?

AcuratePaul

iTrader: (8)

I have no clue lmao...I dont think it has the 4.785 since those were in the 98 spec tranny i got a 96 spec so i think it has to be the 4.400...but my motor has been tweak before since i have found some signs off it...

JustinDM

Yeah if it's a 96 spec.... most likely it'll be 4.40. What do you mean tweaked? What signs are apparent?

D.T.P

iTrader: (3)

Justin, what kind of reliability issues were you talking about regarding ls/B20 vtec?
There is really no reason to build it. Yes the rod/stroke ratio is not optimal but it works fine. The bearings aren't the same as in a vtec bottom but as long as you stay in 8k rev limit they will be fine. Other than that there are absolutely no other issues.
Key is in the tune. You can build and replace parts but with crappy tune you will blow it up. Slapping a vtec head on with oil line kit and a good reliable tune you won't have any issues.
With forced induction, you are putting much more stress on all the parts yet its reliable as long as you get a good tune. Works the same way for vtec head swaps.

Spike

iTrader: (5)

GSR transmissions have shorts gears, so does the ITR. I have a GSr in my teg, and its nice untill your on the highway, 120 kms your doing 3750 RPM's. Go with the LS transmission if your going to go boost, as it has the longest gears of most Honda transmissions.

JustinDM

There are a few things that are lacking in a Franky build.

Such as the rod bolts. The LS rod bolts use the same rod bolts as a D series motor which are very inferior to their B series Vtec counterparts. When I worked @ my cousin's shop, that was the one thing we saw the most in LS/Vtec failure.... the rod bolts. Once you bring the LS rod bolts over their engineered redline they have a tendency to stretch. Which will eventually give up. I would recommend ARP rod bolts. ARP head bolts wouldn't hurt either.

I personally think the LS pistons are ----, unless you plan on boosting. Plus with a low rod ratio, it is beneficial to use a higher compression piston in a N/A for that extra little push during the power stroke. This will offset the natural disadvantage lower rod ratio motors of slower piston during the exhaust stroke. Which will result in more efficient evacuation of burnt gases out of the combustion chamber.

Another is I would balance your rotating assembly or @ least your crank. Yes, Honda cranks are pretty well balanced from factory. Keep in mind that it was engineered for a redline of 6-7k (can't remember from the top of my head). Take a Type R crank, it was engineered for high revs w/ a redline of 8.4k. It was meant to handle that b/c it was engineered to have minimal vibration due to the implemented balance weights on the crank. Vibration does limit the life of the motor. An extra 1-2k in RPM does add up.

What about the water pump? It was designed to see lower RPM's. If you use an LS/B20 water @ high RPM's, you'll be spinning the pump faster than it can keep up, and it won't be working properly, essentially it will start to struggle at pushing the water. The pump will start producing bubbles, and the result is cavitation (collapse of those bubbles, resulting in a small shockwave, that has devasting results to the pump). Again I would consider upgrading the pump to prevent this. If you use a GSR/TypeR water pump, you will have to switch to the same timing belt.

You can get a great tune on a boosted car, and you'll still be due for a rebuild in like what 2-3 years? Yes that's the downside of boosted motors that comes w/ the territory. But I bet you a slapped together franky won't even last that long. All I'm saying is that if you're going to do something, do it right the first time, so you won't regret it later down the road.

I'm not a fan of slapping things together, go get a tune and call it a day, b/c most likely in the end, a stock GSR motor would perform better, and you will have that factory Honda reliabiltiy we all know and love. All I'm saying is that If you slap things together, and get a great tune, it's still no where near as reliable an OEM motor. The OEM motor is where I set my reliability benchmark. I can agree that I great tune will increase reliability, but what about mechanical failure? Does it prevent that? Due to a spun bearing, or a rod being punched through the block, or a crack cylinder walls (mostly in b20's)? I've seen it firsthand. You don't see that kind of damage from normally running stock B18a/b, or B20's. That's because they are operating in their comfort zone, in the tolerances that they were engineered for.

What's the point in spending the same amount of money to build a franky when I can get the same results from a stock GSR, with reliability that I know is there. All I'm saying is spend your money wisely, keep your motor running longer w/ better engineered parts, and protect your investment.

Even when I called up Gord Bush, and inquired about B20 vtecs, he said do it, just build it correctly to make it last. I'm not going to second guess what Gord Bush says.

AcuratePaul

iTrader: (8)

It was tweaked i believe cuz the wire harness was really messed up after i followed the whole harness it was appartant that a v-tec control was used on it...and it just seems like it was tweaked also think i got a stage 2 cultch since its seems so hard.

JustinDM

aaaahhhhhh..... I guess you luck out.... well kinda. Besides the messed up harness, you got a better component for your car. I wish I had that kind of luck.

My buddy bought a Type R motor years ago, and for some reason his motor justed pulled. We just thought that I was built on a good day, since every motor is different. So when a rebuild came around, the guy w/ the horse shoe up his *** bought a motor that came Toda spec b cams, and Toda pistons.

Wish I was that lucky....

AcuratePaul

iTrader: (8)

lol thats awesome he got a motor like that...but you misunderstood me i dont have the vtec controller it was onced attached so i had to deal with my b18b1 harness

JustinDM

oooo.... hahaha my bad.

D.T.P

iTrader: (3)

B20 cylinder sleeves are actually stronger than what people make them seem to be. Cracked sleeves are usually caused by detonation, which is a result of a bad tune.
I guess I didn't mention water pump/timing belt, I would agree and suggest on using a gsr components, but overall a B20/ls vtec will and do last for more than a year or two. I guess it all depends on how you drive it. If you hit rev limitor and bounce it few times before shifting EVERY time, yes it won't last, but that's any engine really.

JustinDM

Yeah your right about the cracked sleeves most of the time it is due to detonation from an improper tune, or no tune @ all... you can't half *** these things. Oh no doubt that a well franky built motor will last for more than a 2 years. As long as it's built right, and built to last.

I think an abused OEM motor would last longer than an abused franky though. Honestly though, I don't think anyone really drives like that normally, and if they do, they won't be living for long.

FatTeg

iTrader: (-1)

everyone here is giving you some LEGIT advice, to summarize:
N/A build:
- +/- 200 whp (for your budget)
- B20vtec (Frank) or ITR motor
Boost:
- Best cost efficiency
- Most power potential
- Most reliant on tuning
- stock b18b +/- 250 hrs, with a little work can easily push 350-400hrs

I'd stay away from the B20, unless you're going to do bottom end work. The b18b is a perfect motor to boost for many reasons, you can throw 8-10psi at a stock LS all year round

D.T.P

iTrader: (3)

^^arg no offence but I hate people like you lol.
8-10psi doesn't explain anything. 10psi on a t25 is not the same as 10psi on a t66.
Its not psi that kills the rods, its the horsepower really. Yes psi does have an affect but you can't just throw numbers out there.

AcuratePaul

iTrader: (8)

ya psi dont mean ---- unless you know what turbo your talking about.

FatTeg

iTrader: (-1)

well my turbo knowledge is lacking, but once i swap my GSR motor in I'm going to build my LS for boost. Now, my question is what sort of parts/kit should i assemble if i want to run a stock LS turbo with +/- 250 hrs?
what if i want to run +/- 350 hrs?

kyle_2_sexy38

not all the time was tuned buy jeff evans 220whp

and what do i see b20 sleeves are weksos