ednyboo

after getting rear strut bar, c-pillar and i guess better tires i went for a test drive.. (i have my same route everytime for test drive to know the difference haha)
and man im getting oversteers...

when i drove FR. obviously. its easy to recover...
but.. when u r driving a FF... is it possible to recover from big oversteers?
or do i have to spin out without a chance?

HKJ

stomp on the throttle, thats what i do when i get lift throttle oversteer.

engsr

The rear strut and c-pillar won't give you oversteer by themselves, at least not the point where it's a drastic difference. A larger diameter rear sway bar will, however.

Did you put "better" tires all around or just the fronts or rears? That also makes a difference, as well as the tire pressure.

I believe the car is naturally tail-happy as it is designed to rotate, with the stock set-up of course. Ask me how I know. :*****:

If you feel the back end of the car losing grip, do not lift your right foot to go for the brake - just step on the gas. Lift-throttle will spin your car around. Again, ask me how I know.

Autoslalom is a great way to learn how to control the "oversteer". I don't recommend learning the hard way on the streets.

Vinnie Mack Yo

waits for erick to comment...............

WildoutWhiteGSR

lmao you kill me

so let me get this straight, your old S2K is easier to recover from oversteer than the ITR?

SMOOTHE

My comment:
Brian is the master of oversteer.

^True story.:*****: :*****: :*****:

2qwik2nv

Bry's ITR on Sunday was a blast. I almost spun as many times in a fun run than he did for his entire day. Holy crap was it tail happy, in stock form too!!!

I do remember from 3 years ago, when Bryan and I had or original tegs, I put the JDM rear strut brace on my ITR and I was rotating like a high torque RWD Monster. Took it off and the ITR came back to normal.

ednyboo

yes.

WildoutWhiteGSR

WOW


let me know when your parting out your car

Simo

turn the wheel the oppostie way

ednyboo

what do u mean-_-?

repyt

i don't have any track experience, but i do like to take sharp turns in my R in empty remote spots..

and yes,

the tail LOVES to come out... i usually counter-steer it and it falls back in place..

esguerra

my car doesn't handle like a track monster anymore =( lol

hope you're liking the monkey bars!!

RSGGSR

[QUOTE]The rear strut and c-pillar won't give you oversteer by themselves, at least not the point where it's a drastic difference. A larger diameter rear sway bar will, however.

Did you put "better" tires all around or just the fronts or rears? That also makes a difference, as well as the tire pressure.

I believe the car is naturally tail-happy as it is designed to rotate, with the stock set-up of course. Ask me how I know.

If you feel the back end of the car losing grip, do not lift your right foot to go for the brake - just step on the gas. Lift-throttle will spin your car around. Again, ask me how I know.

Autoslalom is a great way to learn how to control the "oversteer". I don't recommend learning the hard way on the streets.[/[QUOTE]
Fixed

I remember going through turn 2 Shannonville pro track sideways at ~130Km/h with the throttle pinned.......Your LSD will take care of you WITH practice

my $0.02

the only way to get comfortable doing that is practice...and "practicing" on the street will result in a call to Trenell

By the way ... I call second dibs

repyt

you guys having any events this week? i hear its going to get warmer.. id love to come out and hit the pylons :P

fliptEG

my car is extremely tail happy, why i dont know, EG, with Buddy club N+spec, gsr rear sway, no front sway, no lsd

its a fine balance, and with no lsd, hammering on the gas doesnt always do the trick

RSGGSR

Chris,
what spring rates are you running?
what alignment settings?
corner weighted?

the GSR rear bar might contribute a bit but if your spring rates are much higher than stock then it will make less of a diference.

are your suspension bushings (rear) in good shape?

I suspect that mine are totally fuxored and I am getting toe changes mid corner which makes for some fun corners

the other thing that was suggested to me (for the last event of the year ) was, if the corner weights were off (in my case a couple of turns too much in the rear) that could be part of the problem.

fliptEG

I believe my spring rates are 8k front and 6k rear. car is not corner weighted, and toe settings are 0.

all the bushing in the rear were good when i did the type-r lca swap

engsr

Thing is Shane, Chris's car was tail-happy on the stock suspension - yes, STOCK suspension. We don't know why, to be honest. Our guess is that the car is just naturally tail-happy. Not that that's a problem for either of us.

RSGGSR

you are running higher spring rates in the front so that's not one of the problems!

0 rear toe is what I run - to help with rotation - the GSR bar with the 0 toe should be nice and neutral

soooo........unless you are in the same boat as me... (The N+ spec are coilovers right?)... the cornerweights may be off.

IIRC you also have have removed the rear interior which, I think, can make it worse...I say this cuz I have done the same and it's not going back in....for now!

RSGGSR

Ok then...

although, tail happy is good ....to a certain extent

fliptEG

well with the rear interior in or not its still tail happy,

not sure if this makes a difference, but i also have a c-pillar bar, rear strut bar, rear trunk bar, and front upper strut bar,

i want to get the car corner weighted, but is soo freakin expensive and just out or reach for me at the moment.

with the stock suspension it was really tail happy, i attributed it to having a heavier motor than stock (b16), it was kinda noticible when braking and throttle lift. the stock front springs were really soft

i dont understand why with the stiffer spring rates all around, especially with stiffer front springs the car is really tail happy.

for the most part it is good because when you hammer on the gas it straightens out, but its a really thin line

once you go beyond a certain point there is snap oversteer.

I also have very heavily used r-comps so possibly thats a reason

its quite the mistery

engsr

I say drop the sway and see how it handles. If not, loosen up the rear shocks.

But I still say swap the springs and have a go at it. :*****:

RSGGSR

I have all of those except for the trunk bar...I have a hard time believeing the the strut tower bars and a harness bar make a BIG difference...if you are on the edge, the extra stiffness might put you a bit over.

The fact that you got oversteer with a stock suspension leaves me guessing!

I agree with Bryan,, loose (or just remove one end link) the rear bar, swap the springs and try it. also this may be counter-intutive, but you could "try" a little more ride height in the front vs the rear...

ultimately how much messing around can you do / are you willing to do?

the corner weighting alignment would be the first suggestion but that would run ~$250 which ain't cheap...so the next thing would be ghetto alignment changes between events...ride height, sway bar, camber etc. and tune it to how you like to drive....assuming that the way you like to drive, is the fast way.
I say this because I tend to throw the car around too much...This is not the fastest way...there is a time and place to toss it but mostly, smooth is fast..when I remember to overcome the desire to get into the turns as fast as possible, toss the car sideways and jump on the throttle to get out...I can go faster.

case in point. the last HADA event, I drove the shootout car for the warm-up, knowing that I was not in the final and that it was RRexs' wife's car I did not go ***** out and actually set the fastest time in that car ....(right smartass ) I must admit that driving the wife's automatic Accord gave me a big advantage in timing the acceleration...I was accelerating 1/2 second before the corner, because it took 1/2 second for the tranny to decide what to do, and the car could turn in during that time...

anyway, because conditions change every event pick someone and compare your time to them with the different changes to determine if you are getting closer... if you loose the oversteer but are going slower, that is no improvement.

the driver has a big impact on the attitude of the car...if the car is tail happy, you can't mess around too much with trail braking...brake in a straight line, turn, accelerate...

I spun in a vision exercise at the TRAC school at like 20Km/h ffing embarrising so the rest of the year in Solo 1, I made SURE I did all my braking in a straight line, because I did not want to deal with the back trying to overtake the front at the speeds we hit on the track.

I don't know if any of this helps, but next year get a few more guys to go for ride alongs...Hanif is one of my favourites, he'll be very busy with the running of the series, but if you ask well enough in advance, he often will come for a ride along. If I can help give me a shout!

engsr

I think it depends on how the car is set-up. If the car is already set to rotate, the stiffer rear chassis will help it rotate. But, it's not the deciding factor, though - an understeer car won't rotate as easily, at least from my experience.

Another way is to get a co-driver for your car. You can see how others are able to adapt to the set-up, where they brake, turn-ins, etc. All I know is when Trung drove my car and kicked my ***, it really opened my eyes as to how to drive the car fast, and I'm SO glad for that opportunity.

RSGGSR

agreed...

That is an even better idea!
The caveat would be, an experienced co-driver...and go along with them as many times as possible and have let others co-drive some fun runs


if you've got the tires for all those extra runs

RSGGSR

and now back to your regularly scheduled thread "how do i recover from oversteer with ITR? ":laugh1: