bluewater87

I have some questions about my b18c5 JRSC build. Take a look at my proposed setup and please comment.
(my existing setup is at 6psi + W/I, ITR I/E cams, stock displacement., making 227whp, 155tq @9k) dyno tuned on neptune by Zman. Other little goodies on there as well such as lightened fly, cam gears, clutch, dc cer. Header, aem SRI)
Pure track car.

Usdm B18C5 block
84mm bore with forged pistons (sleeved) piston pin moved higher in piston: longer rods: higher R/S ratio
89/92mm stroke (discussed later on)
Keep my precision 540cc
Gsr intake cam, ITR exhaust cam (dialed to very little overlap). Any other S/C cam recommendations?
High lift, short duration to avoid overlap blowby.
Valves/springs/retainers
Forged rods to suit stroke
Ported and polished Exhaust and intake ports
Possibly some valve work
JRSC with LHT race heat exchanger, P&P S tube to match TB
68-70mm or bigger TB (to match S tube diameter)
AEM 3” SRI with custom cold air box
Kamikaze header (2.5” collector)
Thermal R&D 3” exhaust, or custom 2.75-3”) (catless, with muffler)
Hondata IM gasket

If I do 92mm stroke (95mm also available, too low R/S ratio?not planning on adding deck height as I imagine it can get quite expensive) (2039cc)(such as the 92mm Brian Crower stroker kit): Crv crank pulley, MVM stepper (14%), 3.8” nose
= 11.3psi (Non-intercooled), 10.3 psi (intercooled)(psi difference due to 100F drop)
Redline at 8000, will put the JRSC spinning at 15280rpm at top rpm
Under hood temp:25C, non-LHT IAT:231.8F, LHT IAT: 131F
May consider the use of Water/Methanol injection if needed.
Using Veris’ FTLracing.com calculator, ive come up with 272whp, 210tq.
(using the same calculator, I got -3whp than my existing setup. Pretty accurate)

If I do 89mm stroke (most likely the cheaper way??) (1973cc)(either b18a/b or b20b/z crank)
Crank will be knifedge/balanced/micropolished as needed/recommended.
Oil squirters pushed slightly to avoid hitting 89mm crank, while still effectively squirting the pistons.
Crv crank pulley, Endyn stepper (12%), 3.8” nose
= 11.7psi (Non-intercooled), 10.7 psi (intercooled)(psi difference due to 100F drop)
Redline at 8200, will put the JRSC spinning at 15334rpm at top rpm
(probably bring it down to 8100 to avoid overspinning the JRSC.
Under hood temp:25C, non-LHT IAT:235.4F, LHT IAT: 133F
May consider the use of Water/Methanol injection if needed.
Using Veris’ FTLracing.com calculator, ive come up with 272whp, 204tq.

More details on the 89mm crank build, using zealautowerks.com B series v.950 beta compression calculator
84mm bore
89 mm stroke (either b18a/b or b20b/z crank)
212.39 mm deck height (stock)
42.70 combustion chamber cc (stock)
Piston: similar to PHZ (B20Z) but forged. dome cc:-4.04, Comp height mm: 29.59
Rods: b18a/b or b20b/z but forged. 137.00 mm rod length (stock length)
1 layer head gasket (0.009” thick) (not sure which brand yet)
Head milling: 0.025”
Max rpm speed: 8100
Elevation: 605’
Boost (after cooling): 10.7psi
Results:
Static comp ratio: 10.52:1
Effective comp ratio: 17.97:1
Displacement: 1973cc
R/S ratio: 1.54:1
Piston-deck height: 0.026”
Mean Piston Speed: 2019fps
Max piston Acceleration: 142576 fps2

Or I could do the same as above, but with these changes:
use a forged PR4 (B18A/B) piston(-3.20 dome cc, comp height:30.00mm)
mill head: 0.003”
and end up with the same results with these changes:
Static comp ratio: 10.53:1
Effective comp ratio: 17.99:1
Piston-deck height: 0.032”

bluewater87

92mm crank 89mm crank
RPM WHP TORQUE 8200 272 174
8000 272 179 8000 268 176
7800 269 181 7800 264 178
7600 265 183 7600 261 180
7400 262 186 7400 258 183
7200 258 188 7200 254 185
7000 253 190 7000 249 187
6800 249 192 6800 245 189
6600 245 195 6600 240 191
6400 240 197 6400 235 193
6200 235 199 6200 230 195
6000 230 201 6000 226 198
5800 224 203 5800 221 200
5600 220 206 5600 215 202
5400 214 208 5400 210 204
5200 208 210 5200 202 204
5000 200 210 5000 192 202
4800 190 208 4800 183 200
4600 180 205 4600 173 197
4400 170 203 4400 163 195
4200 161 201 4200 154 193
4000 151 198 4000 146 191
3800 142 196 3800 136 188
3600 132 193 3600 128 186
3400 124 191 3400 119 183
3200 115 188 3200 110 181
3000 106 185 3000 102 179
2800 98 183 2800 94 176
2600 89 180 2600 86 173
2400 81 177 2400 78 171
2200 73 174 2200 70 168
2000 65 171 2000 63 165
1800 58 168 1800 56 162
1600 50 164 1600 48 159
1400 43 161 1400 41 155
1200 36 157 1200 35 152
1000 29 153 1000 28 148
800 23 148 800 22 143
600 16 143 600 16 139
400 10 137 400 10 133
200 5 130 200 5 125


Or is stroking it just a waste of time and money? And just go with the 84mm bore (1933cc).
Maybe throw in a 40 shot somewhere down the road for the Ό mile.

like i said please comment. I imagine there are a couple other ways to do this so help me out! planning on it built at Gord Bush Performance

Thanks guys, hope you like it

bluewater87

anyone?
o well, off to H-T

Torqueless_In_Toronto

lol yeah, reading through your post I was actually about to say that.

Your depth of knowledge and specific detailed questions far outreaches the grasp of 99.9% of the users on here...

P.S. good luck with the build!

bluewater87

^ seems like it...
thanks

some events from last year...
YouTube - 1995 civic hatch b18c5 events
Delaware Speedway
Dunville Autodrome
Grand Bend Motorplex

bluewater87

so i sent an email to theoldone about my build plans with the JRSC, and the guy was explaining to me the realistic downsides about my JRSC build characteristics the whole email.
this is what i send him:
"Hi I have a B18C5 block and head, with a Jackson Racing Supercharger.
I am interested in stroking to 89 or maybe even 92mm, as well as an 84mm bore, using a BC stroker setup, roller-wave pistons, and Darton sleeves.
I plan on running 11psi max LHT intercooled, and max rpm at 8500 or below. (elevation 605')
I plan to have my compression at about 10.5:1, so please specify the pistons etc. accordingly. Gas ports or coating recommended for this setup?
If you have a head gasket preference/thickness in mind i will go ahead with that.
I will be using a kamikaze header with 2.5" collector, as well as a 2.75-3" exhaust, perhaps the Thermal.
This car does not need to pass any emissions laws as it is strictly track driven, so a cat is not necessary.
I plan on swapping to a GSR intake cam, while keeping my ITR exhaust (or any other cam setup you recommend...?)
Upgraded valvetraing to match. I might have some port work done to head if recommended.
I am using 550cc injectors, to be well tuned on neptune.
Please provide me with your opinion if i should go 92mmm or just 89mm stroke for this setup, while maintaining stock deck height.
I can lower the redline to 8200 rpm if needed.
I am looking for the most torque/bottom end power, hence the large stroke.
Do you still offer JRSC porting? If so please provide me with pricing, as well as max rpm after porting.

Please send me the complete specs and prices on the parts you can provide me, as well as any other things i am missing.
Let me know if the pistons/rods etc. spec'd are off the shelf or if they need to be custom.
This car will be track driven hard during circuit events, so durability is a must.
If you have any questions feel free to email me.
Thanks,
Angus Black
Ontario, Canada"


this is what i get back:
"The basic problem with building a larger-displacement engine while running a JR supercharger relates to the fact that the boost you will obtain is basically a ratio of the engine's displacement to the blower's displacement. If you increase the size of the engine, the boost will drop because you can't up-size the displacement of the blower. We find that even at 2-liters, the M62 blowers are only able to produce 9psi, and that's gearing them so they're screaming. Obviously the heat the blower will develop is a problem under these circumstances, and the only intercooler kit that's available is of questionable value, as the pressure drop across the element is so great that it kills boost....and there have also been reliability issues with them as well.
Over the past 3-4 years, we've opted to go with properly sized turbo's on engines, as they are much more efficient than the superchargers. If you use the correct turbo, it'll spool quickly netting a wide torque band, and it'll absolutely kill a blower up-top.
In any case, I build all of our turbo engines with a GSR crank and the bottom ends last forever, even at close to 1000HP.
With 89.0mm cranks, I can't move the piston pin up high enough on a FI piston to permit the use of a longer than stock rod because it'll push the top ring up too close to the timing edge of the piston and the same is true for a 92.0mm stroke.
Please understand that we build engines for customers all over the world, and our engines are unconditionally warrantied and we're the same way about parts we sell (or won't sell)....So, if we wouldn't build it here, we won't sell the parts to enable a customer to."


Seems like he's basically telling me JRSC's aren't worth it, go with a turbo instead.
I already have the JRSC and have been researching them for quite a while now. Take a look at Veris' car:
FTLRacing-Veris
or even Jadkars car:
FTLRacing-Jadkar

They both have quite the extensive JRSC builds, and they are using parts from "theoldone" (endyn roller-wave, crower rods) as well as parts he had negative comments about such as the LHT intercooler.
in the email he said 9psi max for 2L, well Veris has 1979cc, 9000rpm redline, and hes pushing ~11psi. (i'd be down to ~8400, allows me to spin the JRSC quicker over the whole rprm range)
So who can I trust here?
Do i look for an alternative company for my engine build parts, or do i follow this guys guidelines and ditch the whole JRSC setup and start all over with a turbo (which i wanted to avoid as i do auto-x, love the bigger engine feel of a JRSC, hate lag of a turbo/minimum spool rpm, and i really don't know ---- about turbo sizing or anything!)

Or do i respond to him with my mathematical calculations so he can see where i'm coming from, as well as examples of similiar builds such as Veris and Jadkar, which he probably knows of anyways...

I think its because they mostly deal with the turbo crowd these days and JRSCs are a thing of the past unfortunately.

zman

he's just trying to give you your best bang for buck.

I've seen several ITR's with smaller-ish turbos make around 300whp on 9-10psi, building boost around 4000rpms and making awesome power up to 9000rpms.

Low end power shouldn't be too much of a concern for you IMO because how often are you below 5-6000rpms anyways doing the types of racing you do?

I see why you'd want a JRSC setup, I remember how flat your torque was and how linear the power production, but ENDYN really knows his ---- and seriously, if he's stepped over to turbos theres sure to be a reason. Turbos are more efficient than JRSC's any day on any small displacement 4 cylinder engine and with the large assortment of turbos to choose from you'll be sure to find one that suits your needs.

bluewater87

auto-x im down to like 2000 rpms in 2nd gear sometimes, but with the jrsc even at 6psi, i was just on the verge of breaking them loose which was perfect.
Turbo in the same situation id be boggin til 4k like you said was the typical spool rpm for a smaliish ITR turbo.

I think i am starting to get my head around to the turbo idea however, but i've got a LOT of reading to do on turbo sizing etc.
seems like theres lots of parts associated with a turbo setup.
Any good turbo reads/ITR turbo builds you guys know off hand, or anything that could help me out..
Zman u mind posting up some ITR turbo dyno graphs if u got em? or any tips on which turbo i would use for like 300-350whp, but with quick/early spool time? THX

Might be selling my used b16/ITR JRSC with methanol/water injection system (250 psi pump), crv crank pulley, JR boost controller, alt pulley, belts, whatever else is associated with the JRSC setup i have. Great condition, no problems whatsoever. has about 7-8kms on it now iirc.
bought it for $1650 off a member on here.
anybody interested pm me.

FPMotorsports

If you need a turbo kit please pm me