Poules*DC22

Hey im really confused i want to do an ls vtec but alot of my friends are telling me that its a unstable motor and for a example if i miss a gear it will blow, and that the head will keep going! And i got other guys telling me that the motor will only run as good as a b16 with more torque. When i know other guys that say if i just put a b16 head i can beat a type R. Then i got other guys telling me i will only go as good as a type r if i do it right which is a "ls vtec kit". Also i was wondering if u guys could possibly tell me if u know how much horsepower and torque the motor is capable of. And which computer would be best for the motor.....type r, gsr or sir?? One more, thing i cant afford a new block but mine has around 280 000 km!!! So im not sure if i should wait cause im not the type that would beat his motor but i would like to floor it ever once in awhile or even take it to the track without worrying if im gonna be the guy to blow his motor today! lol. So if u guys know any information possible i would really appreciate it thanks.

tdot2gteg

since your new we wont blast you. but try the search. ive asked about lsvtec before so you can find on that and other threads.

Buff4Prez Yo

iTrader: (2)

Honda-tech bro hey got everything you need.
one thing you'll see alot in the H-T threads is this: "cheap. fast. reliable....Pick 2"

i reccommend the golden eagle LS/Vtec Kit it's pretty much dummy proof and a safer way.

add me to msn i'll try to answer any questions you have. buff4prez @ hotmail . com

Buff4Prez Yo

iTrader: (2)

We? you're a noob too hahaha.

this thread should be in the tech section anyways

RRRex

A low mileage LS block won't cost you much from an importer. Hell, you might as well buy a B20B. I did a B20BVTEC and the motor ran me 950. I wouldn't do a build up on a high mileage motor like yours. The biggest issue with the LS is rod to stroke and bottomend balancing. Since it's not designed for high revving it means you can't rev it like an ITR or a B16. If you keep the revs down it will last you a long time.

In terms of power it won't give you ITR power, but since the stroke is longer than an ITR motor is should give you more torque. I've seen balanced LS bottomends and pistons put down far more torque and hp than built ITR motors, but you're talking 10K buildups at that point.

I went the B20VTEC route since I blew 2 ITR motors and it was starting to get expensive. Figured a 950 dollar block is the cheaper way to blow motors. I ended up with 184hp and 145 torque which was 10 and 10 higher than the ITR motor it replaced. I'll let you know at the end of the season how it holds up.

RRRex

In terms of ECU run a standalone with a wideband O2 or a chrome/ubberdated/hondadata chipped dyno tuned (with a tailpipe sniffer) P28. Get a program written for your app. Don't just do a plug and play of a stock ecu and expect it to - by some miracle - work perfectly.

TwoSix

yup..every1 has mixed opinions on the LSVtec, but one thin every1 ive talked to agrees on is that u better get it tuned properly or u lose all your money.

zman

don't waste your money on a standalone engine management. Not when there is freeware as good as there is (Crome). Just run a chipped p28 with a custom program that your tuner will make on a dyno with a wideband. You don't need to go out and buy an expensive standalone (like motec or AEM EMS) and wideband o2 if you plan on having someone else tune it. They will just use crome and the wideband at the dyno.
Now if you're just going to slap a vtec head on a ls/b20 bottom end, don't expect much. But if you use some b16/itr/ctr pistons in a LS bottom end to get the compression up and some ARP rod bolts to allow you to see 8500rpms safely and balance the rotating assembly you will have a fast, reliable lsvtec. I also highly recommend the Golden Eagle lsvtec converion kit, its very very nice.
If you plan on just slapping a vtec head on a LS block you should see about 150-160whp and 130ft/lbs with a good tune. But raise the compression and get some bigger cams and upgraded valvetrain and upwards of 200whp and 140ft/lbs is realistic.

its me.. mario

ha! you've only been here a minute and you're calling others noobs?

RRRex

I'd agree with zman that a stane alone is costly and I can't say anything bad about crome since I run it myself for the same reason he mentioned, it's cheap and does a great job.

The only real benefit from as stand alone is in competitive track racing and stupid high compression or turbo apps. Crome does a great job tuning your AF on the dyno on that day at that temp under the load and conditions of a dyno. Real world apps on the track are a little different. The data logging allows you to see what the car is doing on the track and you can tune to that. You can also tune to weather as well to get the most out of your setup. It just help you compensated for many more variables that crome can not do. Being NA it's not a huge issue for me, but I still put my car on a dyno twice a year and the fuel curve and ignition map are always being adjusted. I'm tempted to do a stand alone this year that's why I mentioned it. But I'm overly competitive and track my ho so maybe that's why I see value in the extra cost - I wouldn't have pay full cost though. Might just do an wideband and data logging unit to see how much shifting actually happens on the track.

zman

i was just going to suggest gettin a wideband (i use PLX M-300), datalogging cable (i use a hondalog) and paying $150 for CromePro. Its much cheaper than a full standalone setup and can do more than u think.
It can correct for higher IAT's (intake air temperatures), CromePro datalogs lots of perameters (too many to list), and can do real-time programming, can correct for different ECT's (engine coolant temperatures).
CromePro is great and worth every penny.
Here's a little screenshot of the perameters cromePro's datalogging covers.

RRRex

NICE!! That's something to consider. How do you do real-time tuning with it?

zman

You need a ROM emulator, one of the most common ones is the Ostrich from moates.net. It replaces the external ROM (chip) and allows for real time programming. Its connects to the laptop via USB just like all of the other moates' devices (burn1, hondalog, hulog). Its only $175 and worth every penny not having to stop to burn a new chip every 5 minutes and simply being able to hit the update button and have the changes take place instantly.

WildoutWhiteGSR

I'd like to add if your going ls vtec, add a vtec waterpump and oil pump to that list.


I'll have to hit you up with any tuning question I have in the fall. Do you tune for a/f ratio only? Have you tried playing with timing and cam gears? I would like to get more info on how you can do that on the street.

zman

I've tuned the fuel maps, the ignition maps and i've messed around with my cam gears. Well, i wouldn't go crazy with the ignition timing, not on the street at least, you're basically just looking for as much timing as you can get away with without detonating. Basically, just get your afr down really good, then start advancing the timing about 1 degree or so at a time, once it stops making a difference or u start detonating, back it off a degree or so. Then go back and see where the afr needs adjusting, adjust accordingly and start messing with the cam gears. I just basically tuned out some overlap so my car would idle half decent (theres lots of overlap with my cams). I am surprised how much difference 2 degrees made in terms of the idle steadying out and how much better the midrange felt without a huge loss in top end.
A dyno is a way better place to mess around with ignition timing and cam gears b/c you can see (by the dyno graph printout) where your gaining/loosing and what needs adjusting. It helps to street tune before heading to the dyno so you don't spend so much time getting the afr down. Dyno time is expensive, whereas street tuning isn't...all you need is some empty roads out in the sticks somewhere....lots of those in and around hamilton...where i live.