DaGizzer

Hi guys.

Just a question. I have a friend that wants to sell me his 1998 JDM ITR cams, springs and retainers. He wants $500 for it and I'm not sure if that is a good price.

Also, do I even need the retainers and valve springs? Does it make any difference if I have them or not?

Also, I have heard from some people that if someone is gonna get ITR cams, it's better to get 2000 or 2001 ITR cams. Any thoughts on that?

Your help and information is appreciated.

WildoutWhiteGSR

You don't need the retainers, but if you want to rev to 8400rpm you need the ITR springs and valve's. The ITR valve's are 12% lighter than gsr valve's. You also need the springs to go with them to better protect against valve float.

The 1997-1999 ITR cam specs are

INTAKE lift - 11.5 mm, duration 240 @1mm
EXHAUST lift - 10.5mm, duration 235 @1mm


The CTR and 2000-2001 ITR cam specs are

INTAKE lift - 11.5 mm, duration 243 @1mm
EXHAUST lift - 10.5mm, duration 235 @1mm

Yes it is better to get the 00-01 ITR Cams, speaking of abosolute performance and to get every drop of horesepower out of the car. You have more duration in the 2000-2001 ITR cam by 3 degree's. About 8whp peak. If fully tuned for it. Would I based my decision on 8whp peak, hell no. I'd buy whatever was cheaper. You rarely ever spend most of your time at peak horsepower levels. The power under the curve is the same for all ITR cams.


The GSR intake valve spring is the same as the ITR exhaust valve springs. So you take your GSR intake valve springs and move them to the exhaust side. Then buy new ITR intake valve springs. Save yourself some money.

Is it a good deal, I'd say $350-$400 is better along the lines.

Big Hairy Gino

Yeah, I was just abou to say the 01 ITR cams are the same as the CTR cams.

T, is there anyway of being able to tell what year ITR cams they are physically? Or do they all look the same?

DaGizzer

Thanks for that explaination. It was excellent.

I have a few questions though since you say I need to change the valves in order to rev to 8400rpm? Doesn't the ECU determine your rev range and limit? Also how much am I looking at $$$ for ITR Valves?

Also, does anyone have access to these parts for a decent price?

WildoutWhiteGSR

The ecu determines the rpm limit and fuel cut-off on the electronical end. The valves and valve springs determine the rpm limit on the mechanical end.

By all means you can rev your gsr valve's and valve springs to the itr redline of 8400rpm, but can you do it safely and repeatedly...No. So why risk the chance, when the itr valve and valve springs are not that expensive to begin with. Know what I mean?

Price on ITR Intake Valve's

http://www.inlinefour.com/intypinval.html

http://store.yahoo.com/yhst-14083816...dc2intyri.html

The GSR & ITR exhaust valve's are the same

MAXFLOW2

.

Yes you will need springs and retainers as the cam profile is such that the cams will cause your valves to "float" as your OEM springs do not have enough tension to pull the valeves shut. This has to be done usually oon any motor that is stepping up more han just a mild cam profile. Anything above stock on a GS-R requires new springs unless you get JDM GS-R cams but for 4-5 hp not really worth the swap.

$500 is a fair price to ask. Offer $400 cash and get them. Your head will have to be pulled off to install. Get a professional shop to clean the head reseat the valve, install new seals. This can be done for a small fee of about 230 - $300. I would seriously consider having a new intake put on. The GS-R intake doesn't have the best flow characteristics. With a new intake and throttle body and the iTR cams and retainers you will see some decent HP gains. Expect 185 -195 maybe more (depends if you have a real CAI and a complete high flow exhaust - header converter and cat back). Put this car together properly and get it to a shop such as Neetronics and they will Dyno tune your car to accept the changes.

A place such as Mississauga is also great as they can do all the work and make great recommendations.

WildoutWhiteGSR

He doesn't need to upgrade his retainers as they are the same for all vtec heads.

I hope you mean gsr intake manifold and not gsr intake. Because adding a intake and throttle body isn't gonna help him make power. The choke point for the system is the intake manifold.

A ITR intake and itr intake manifold won't fit on a gsr head and vice versa. If indeed you mean a new gsr intake manifold and throttle body. Then yes you are correct. I'd save buying a new throttle body though, as after the manifold being the choke off point, a stock gsr head needs to be ported in order to benefit from the increased flow a new intake manifold a throttle body can offer.

Otherwise everything else you said is

WildoutWhiteGSR

JEFFOS69

Does he really need the valves? I think the stock would opearate fine. For sure he will need the springs.

DaGizzer

OK. so I just want to recap what I need here.

To do this PROPERLY, I need:

ITR cams or CTR cams
ITR Springs
ITR Intake Valves

And I can use my stock retainers and stock GS-R exhaust Valves.

I already have an AEM CAI for a GS-R. I am looking for a JG or Skunk2 IM, FPR and a P28 to have chipped or Hondata ECU to remap my air:fuel and redline.

Let me know if I'm on the right track here. Thanx guys.

Big Hairy Gino

^ You cant use your GSR CAI if youre planning to change manifolds and tb. You'll need and ITR intake if you change IM's.

I might be wrong on the TB part, so someone correct me there if im mistaken.

nightstick

LOL, whoever says he need ITR valves is misinformed. everybody and there granny run oem valves. ITR, GSR, SIR....as for CTR intake cam vs. ITR intake its a closely fought debate. with the aid of cam gears 95-99 ITR's will stay within 2-3whp of CTR's. everything else being spoken is rubbish. all oem retainers are the same except for JDM automatic dohc vtec motors. there is no need for ITR valvesprings unless you plan on exceeding 8400rpm. which will be a waste with this uber-mild setup. ITR cams, h/i/e and a bit of tuning is sufficient. you'll be wasting your money if you buy the valves, 8 extra springs etc. i mean, the head has to be pulled to install these parts. is it really worth it? NO. you will have no real need for a Hondata because your set up is basic. an upgraded fuel pump is probably enough. if you want to make REAL power, stack your chips and research. thik about it, the cost of the Data, cams, im, chipped p28 etc will exceed $1300 after labour...for what...10whp? stack your paper and do it right next year.

Smartass pHO

NA is NGay

Go boost or go home

DaGizzer

My dad is my mechanic so labour is free. All I would need to pay for is the tuning and I think I'm gonna go to Splitfire for that. When it comes to tuning I've heard Paul knows his ----.


Let me re-iterate this point: I WANT TO DO THIS PROPERLY! I do not want to just get by with what I've got and then something happens and my ---- breaks. I want to build my motor the right way.

Trenell, if you could tune in here and provide some more opinion that would be great.

Oh, "boost" does not interest me. I'd rather have a pretty nice NA set up and get a lil shot of sauce for when I need to blow by cars with "boost".

WildoutWhiteGSR

First of all. ITR Intake Valves are 12% lighter. They are that way for a reason. They allow roughly a 200rpm increase. Second not all oem vtec intake valves are the same. If you actually looked at the links I provided above the confirm what I'm saying. Plus check out the part #'s, See for yourself. The OEM vtec exhaust valves are the same for all.

94-97 GSR Intake Valve
Part # 14711-PR3-000

2000 Civic SI B16A
Part # 14711-PR3-000

98-01 Integra Type R USDM & JDM
Part # 14711-P73-J01

JDM Civic Type R B16B
Part # 14711-P73-J01


No he doesn't absolutly need the ITR Intake valves, but it's safe insurance. Especially for only $130 new. That choice is up to him.


2-3whp and 8whp peak. It's still a difference to some. I also said it doesn't really matter, buy whatever cam is cheaper.

You don't buy itr valve springs to exceeding 8400rpm. You buy ITR valve springs so that you can rev up to 8400rpm. Big difference. If you wanted to exceed that rpm then buy aftermarket valve springs, not itr. Plus there's no point in revving itr cams any higher anyways.

Pulling the head isn't hard first off all. Buying 8 extra springs and valves is nessecary. Honda just didn't put them on the itr for no reason and I've shown you why above.

Actually he will need to tune his setup. For one, to make it run properly. Two gsr intake manifolds have secondaries that open at 5800rpm. ITR don't, he'll lost power there if he doesn't tune it. Three, if you run that rich for a overly long time you can damage your catalytic converter. There's also members on this board running that setup now that can vouch for all I just said.

Read some of these links and then comeback and say he doesn't need to tune

http://www.team-integra.net/forum/di...1&ThreadPage=2

http://www.team-integra.net/forum/di...TopicID=113444

http://www.team-integra.net/forum/di...TopicID=116414



What makes you think that he needs a upgraded fuel pump? First above you said the setup is mild and now he needs a upgraded fuel pump? Are you reading what your typing. He doesn't need a upgraded fuel pump. Nor does he need a upgraded fuel injector or fuel pressure regulator. What he does need is a good tuning.

Hondata is old school way of thinking. They are products out there like Crome, Uberdata, Neptune etc to tune with. Crome and Uberdata is free. Where you come up with this $1300 price tag I don't know.


ITR Cams & Springs $400
ITR Valves $130 Brand New, he could find used for cheaper.
Price of a P28 ECU $150
Parts to chip the ecu $35.00
Chip with included base map $15.00
New Headgasket $90.00


Total = $820.00

If need doesn't buy thr ITR valves, he won't need a new headgasket and the total is $600.00

Both are still far from your $1300 quote

Whose misinformed again?

WildoutWhiteGSR

Done


But as Jonn said, you can't run your gsr intake with a Skunk2 or JG intake manifold. You need a ls or ITR intake. TB doesn't matter.