Pennzoil
 

hi guys,
this morning i drove to markham, drove back to mississauga, SQ1 no problems. soon as i pulled out of Sq1 parking lot in first gear my car started choking(jumping) i pressed the clutch it stopped choking then shift it to second and it ran fine. it did choke at times while i was driving then i dropped by wal-mart picked up a PENNZOIL FUEL INJECTOR CLEANER assuming engine wasnt getting enough gas/fuel thats why it choked. my tank was nearly empty when i poured in the Pennzoil cleaner refilled tank drove about a kilometer when engine light came on. i did not get any code signals. popped the hood didn't see anything unusual restarted the car afew times didn't help, drove 60 kms still engine check light didn't go off. referred to owner's manual it said it has something to do with emissions and only a mechanic can tell the problem. i was wondering if ever same happened to u guys and what u guys did to fix it. and how much of a repair cost i am looking for?..just a rough estimate.

thanks

car specs: 1996 integra rs 5spd new b20b engine with 80, 000 clicks and drop in k&n filter.
ps. i feel loss of power also. RPM at idle is at 1200 where it used to be around 700 rpms before. oil change is due also.

Are you sure you don't have codes? when a MIL light comes on and stays on solid there should be code(S) set. You say that you have a b20 right? Are you running that with the 96 rs ecu or another computer because if its and obd1 ecu that your running off then you can check the codes by jumping the 2 wire connector located at the passenger kick pannel and it will flash your codes on the dash. If you are obd2 you will have to use a scan tool to read your codes by plugging into the data link connector located behind the center console passenger side i belive.

i think its a 96 rs ecu.. i read owner's manual it said to look for a green box on passenger kick panel, inside green cover there is a blue connector with 2 wires secure 2 wires then place key on position and read the codes. well i went there and i had no clue what was going on there.. i didn't see a green box or anything..anyway i placed the key on ON position and saw a quick flash of engine check which means (1 O2A - Oxygen Sensor #1). i have upload some pics of passenger side panel see if u guys recognize anything there. thanks

cant you just reset ur engine light by unplugging the battery for like 10 minutes then plugging back in????

Its not a box its like a stretchy plactic green cover with 2 connectors in it that almost look like phone jack connectors for your phone in your house two wires going to each one, if its not there then you may have to plug a scan tool into your DLC located pehind the cetere console passenger side.

This is what one of the connectors lloks like and how to jump it and it's not showing you the green condom cover but you get the point there are 2 of these in the green plastic condom cover in that area. Now oyu may not have this because your car is 96 and obd2 in that case you have to read from the DLC. Oh and your one flash of the MIL light on key on is just to run a quick system check of everyting it's not a code it goes out after 2 seconds after the fule pump has been primed and and sees no ignition reference.
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/p.../dsc00039j.jpg[/IMG]

thanks for the input guys...i see something like that in the right corner. big green telephone jack looking with 2 holes side by side one hole has a connector connected in it with 2 wires a black and red and i dont see any other wires.
ps. what kind of machine is it that reads the code? does all mechanics have it?

Did you bother to read the instructions on the box? Cause I can bet it probably says something on it in regards to adding the bottle to a FULL tank of gas.

What you did was run the non dilluted product through your fuel system. I.e. Your engine was practically running off of that ----. There's your problem.

If it is a 96, then that little "telephone jack" shouldn't do anything; your going to have to see a mechanic (even mr. Lube's have the scanner tools) and get the code read.

Make sure you purge that ---- out of the fuel system, and hope you didn't ---- any of it up.

i checked it this morning under steering it says "Data serial connector for OBD2 is located on the right side of the center console" i figured i need a scanner when i saw a little grey connector.
ps. if u guys dont mind advicing on how to get rid of that injector cleaner in the fuel system? do i need special tools or a mechanic to purge the ---- out of the fuel system.

Just run a tank of 91 through it and it should be fine...

If u wanna get really complicated, then you can disconnect the line that runs to your fuel rail, put it in a bucket, and crank it a couple times... That'll clean everything except for your injectors, seeing as how they're downstream.

i found the code its P0122 TPS/PEDAL POSITION SENSOR A CIRCUIT LOW INPUT. i have got no idea what that is. before i even put the pennzoil injection cleaner the car would choke and idle on higher rpms i thought putting pennzoil shall fix it...anyhow... P0122 TPS/PEDAL POSITION SENSOR A CIRCUIT LOW INPUT means? what kind of expense i am looking for? may be a rough estimate?

thanks a bunch guys

Tps stands for Throttle Position Sensor... Located on your throttle body.

That would explain your problem; try deleting the code... If it comes up again, or your car keeps struggling, then you might have to replace your TPS, or have it recalibrated.

the guy erased the code for me it drove fine until i was nearly home it started choking felt like it was gonna stall then jump higher idle rpm and light came back on. since its a B20B i am assuming i shall order the tps ---- from honda right? i hope its not too expensive cuz i am still in debt paid so much to put in a new engine when the old one died on me. :( thanks a lot guys u have been always helpful all of you.

ps. as per this website "The Honda or Acura dealer will charge approximately $500.00 to $600.00 for the throttle body assembly." is that true? do i need the whole kit?

O god, dude no...

You don't need a new throttle body; the tps is bolted to the throttle body.

It's on the side; sitting on the same axis as the actual throttle valve. Check kijiji, --------.ca, etc for a used one.

Attachment 14405

(this is on a GSR manifold, btw... but they're identical)

awesome!!! thanks for clearing it up dude. i owe u a beer :D lol
my neighbor says it should be around 40 to 50 bucks at honda dealer. u think i shall get it?

try and grab a tps from a scraped car or even from someone on here they may have the sensor off an old setup. There is a way to check sensors by doing a resistance check, ond more tecnical way is to backprobe the signal wire and check the wave with a lab scope but you would have to get a mechanic to do that and its expensive so if you can get a tps for sheap try and replace it and see if it solves your problem but it could also be in your wiring so you may still have that code/problem with a new sensor. I f was a tech at a shop i would always check before telling a costomer to buck up and replace somehthing that they didnt need and didn't fix the problem.

^ uhhh No.. the TPS is not bolted to the throttle body. its riveted you cant just unbolt it you gotta drill out the rivets

to the op just search around here for a whole throttle body ive seen them selling here going for around 50 to 60 bux all B series throttle bodys are interchangeable but have difference opening sizes

ya your best bet may be to try and grab thoe whole throttle body it would be much easier.

Really?! God damn... I'm prob thinking of the MAP sensor :s:

My badd... I don't have my car up here with me, so i can't even go have a look :(

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php...ht=removal+tps

Too Easy :D

its true that tps is riveted to the throttle body but that doesn't mean you can't unbolt it and slap in a new sensor. i was quoted $1, 000 by the deal for the throttle body. instead i picked up a sensor from a parts shop for 10 bucks and installed it. took me 2 hours to remove the bad sensor. i guess all the effort was worth it. cars runs like before normal rpm and i hope it stays normal for atleast until i am out of school..lol..

For $1000 it better be a ported+polished, overbored and matched to the intake manifold. Plus it comes with a header and exhaust system right?

Geesh talk about over priced.

Glad you got things worked out.

nah $1, 000 for the throttle body only. just for that small ------- piece of metal which is not even 2 pounds of metal... anyway from what i learned if u really need a new throttle body go with something performance throttle body like skunk2 which is only $250 which i think is way better compared to 1000 bucks.

never go to the dealership for anything unlesss its absolutly neccesary

I don't agree with that; i go Honda OEM for gaskets, washers, MTF, plugs, most sensors, fuel/brake lines, etc...

Go there often enough, and you can be buddy buddy with the parts manager :D



And like the link i posted, it seems easy enough to cut out the rivets... wouldn't even try looking for a TB.

Couldnt be bothered to read all these long as posts but if it hasnt been said...

Fuel injector cleaner should be put into the gas tank when its full. The directions say that its to treat a full tank of gas.. Fill it with gas and try to "mix" it as best you can? no idea how. but raw fuel injector cleaner can decrease performance immensly, as im sure you've noticed. Its supposed to be diluted with gas.

That wont do anything.

Someone already mentioned that.

You won't hurt anything running straight injector cleaner though. If you brought your car in for an injector cleaning they used to (still do?) hook a can of the ---- straight to the fuel rail, disable the fuel pump, and run it like that till the can was empty.

I've never heard of that technique; only times i've seen anything remotely close to that put into application is a hose tied into your throttle body while the engine was running, and a small, controlled amount of cleaner is released. Put too much in at once, and she'd misfire to ---- and often stall out.

Your telling me running gasoline is a bad way of purging your fuel system of remnant f/i cleaner is a bad idea? It's the only product thats OEM approved that i know of. (I said OEM, not dealership approved). Can't go wrong running gasoline through your system, as opposed to putting some other additive into your pgmfi, which could only make the problem worse.

I'm honestly not all too certain what operating pressure these fuel injectors run at, but from the ones i'm used to dealing with, it's often enough to puncture skin (diesel f/i).

I'm sure the fluid used is/was different than a gasoline additive.

Engine was made to run on 87, 91 won't do anything special.

Since the engine is still running, he should just fill his tank as normal and drive, the system will be purged in a couple minutes.

B18B1: 40-47psi
B18C1: 48-55psi

My point was in the fact that I'd rather see him run a tank of 91 through, as opposed to some terrible bottle of additives.

I've seen more then once, a higher grade of fuel helping to clean out the fuel system/combustion chamber etc prior to emissions tests and have improvements made. (When I say 91 octane, I merely mean't premium gasoline; I'm not talking in reference to the actual octane rating).

My point was that there is nothing magical about premium fuel that will help him here.

Premium fuel doesn't "clean out" your fuel system anymore than regular grade.

I don't believe that there is any empirical evidence to suggest that it can help to lower emissions either no matter what people think.

Additives put in the higher grades, as well as composition, such as the addition of ethanol...

I'll elaborate more tomorrow; I'm exhausted.

Ethanol is added to raise the octane number. Any other additives serve the same purpose.

Simply put, Premium is just not going to clean out anything that regular wouldn't.

I'll gladly chew on my shoe if you can find evidence to the contrary, but I'm fairly certain that its just old wives tales.

While i'd rather not side with the petrol companies, i will put up a debate.

Ethanol is used to increase octane ratings, although in many countries is already being used as an alternative due to its cleaner-burning nature.

Also, octane ratings are now mostly dependent on the level of refinery, since the phase-out of leaded gasoline.

Brazil is a big supporter of high-ethanol gasolines (especially in thier bigger, more polluted cities) not only because of thier massive crops and ease of refinement; but also in an effort to reduce airborne pollutants.

As a side note, ethanol does not contain as much energy when burned, in comparison to gasoline (or diesel, which has one of the highest BTU ratings, next to jet fuel, etc).

Most petrol companies claim to enrich thier higher grades of gasoline with extra detergents and an increased level of ethanol (if they're telling the truth, we'll never know). I believe this to a very minor extent; there are laws against false advertisement, so they could technically claim this and only add 0.01% extra detergents, and make these rational claims.

No need to debate any of that.

Here is where we seem to share our doubt.

Regarding ethanol as a potential "cleansing" agent, don't forget that up until more recently fuel systems just weren't designed with ethanol in mind. Based on that I have to believe that even the most ethanol rich gasoline (not E85) still does not contain enough ethanol to effectively clean anything as it would likely also damage the seals of the fuel system in the process.

Regarding detergents. I'm still on the fence. I don't particularly believe that anything they add would result in a tangible benefit over time. I mean think about how many people drive forever using nothing but regular 87. Meh...

^^ i enjoy reading your guys posts err discussion rather :D

Agreed; until recently, fuel systems were incapable in dealing with the composition of ethanol, seeing as how alcohol tends to deteriorate seals.

To bring everything into perspective, i'm willing to agree that 1 tank of high grade gasoline will not, in fact, provide any benefits. My original reasoning was incorrect. Although, i still defer from using any additives; including fuel tank additives, fuel injector cleaners, fuel system cleansings, etc.

If your car has clocked up 300 000 km's, pull the injectors and just pay the $150 to have them professionally cleaned.

(Unless it's your daily beater LS; drive that bitch into the ground :D)

:yeah:

Especially if its a DA... :D
Disclaimer: Nothing against DAs, but everyone else likes to give you guys a hard time, so... :P