LS-Vtec vs GSR/Type-R
 

Okay, ive been doing a lot of google searches, and watching video's. and what i came to conclusion is that a LS vtec(gsr/typeR) head, will beat, or is faster then a GSR/TypeR. is that correct? because of more torque?

I'm thinking about Vtecing my LS motor, or maybe even b20vtec instead. But i plan in the future to add a tubro possibly later. so ls vtec is the way to go?

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/8...112e48ca47.htm

what?

is an ls vtec with a gsr head, faster then a gsr stock
is an ls vtec with a typeR head faster then a stock typeR

A well built ls vtec will put down slightly more power, generally speaking, but you cant match the reliability to a factory produced unit to a frank setup.

Pros and cons to each...

Im going to be doing a LS/Vtec with my b18b in the next year or two as well. Best way to do it and cheapest I believe is, LS block with the b16 (vtec) head from a SIR. ;) Properly built/tuned plus the proper add-ons like i/h/e will gain you 202whp, as i was told from a trusted tuner. :) Therefore beating both GSR & Type R :P It might be faster with a Type R head or GSR head but they are much more costly and GSR heads are hard to come by, as I was told. SIR engines are thrown around like dirty laundry.

you need to do more research

+1 ^^^^^^

Those are some crazy numbers

I'd like to know what type of I/H/E your using

do you mean gain 202whp as in stock whp + 202whp or just 202whp overall?

I was told those are the numbers you can see... 202hp at the wheels overall with the b16 vtec head on a ls block..
Like if using a b16 head, not just the b16's head, also the b16 pistons or rods, I cant remember which, if not both. Its not my setup, I plan to do a b16 head swap, but my research with Nick @ --------, told me I can make that much power at the wheels with of course some goodies like a Hytech header. Its not just a head swap, there is some work to it, to get it done properly. To me its hearsay, but I did say above that I got it from a trust tuner (Nick) :P

The reason why I said its faster than a gsr & type r (stock of course) is cuz you lose 15% hp through the drivetrain. I was told these numbers are what you will see at the wheels. I could be fooled and maybe he told me this to get me all worked up into doing the swap! :P Maybe it was exaggerated!

I was just relaying a msg to fellow member!

Im not using anything but if and when im doing the swap, i plan to do it right of course, maybe whale penis/hytech headers 4-1/who knows what exhaust.

but the head swap wouldnt just be a head swap... i did mean to include properly building it with the cams and pistons.

taking an ls block and slapping a head on it regardless wat will give u more power but it wont give u serious power, if u plan on totaly buliding the both the head and block while ur at it then u should get better performance than a type r or gsr ps. a type r head iss the best to use for that build then b16 then gsr

i did say its the cheapest way to make power for a ls vtec... how often do u come across a gsr head or type r head? you would rather do the full gsr/type r swap in that case. Thats where im coming from, and SIR heads are easier to come by to do ls vtec. My understanding is that you can do the LS/Vtec with gsr/type r heads.. its just not cost effective... you might as well do the full swap.

how much is a b16 head? i see gsr heads for about 400.

also is it possible to do an ls vtec for about a grand? because i can get the head for about 400, the install for 350, just need to get an ls vtec kit. is there anything else?

gsr heads goes for 400~500. whole block goes for 1600~1800. type r head goes for about 1500~2000, block for 4k. i think ls vtec with gsr is cheaper then doing a whole gsr swap. but from what i hear. gsr swap is just more reliable then a Frank ls vtec. I'm personally looking for the more affordable method. so ls vtec is what im thinking

gsr engines are like $2800 for the full swap. If i were you i'd sell your b18 with the tranny for $1k at the very least and spend $1800 on the swap.

asking $1000 for a b18b with tranny is alot and b18c1 swaps are getting alot cheaper, around $2400 for the entire swap.

+1, i just chopped my mint running ls motor and tranny for $200!
Maybe a bit under value, but was gone in 20 minutes :)

B18C5 > any other b series combination.

A b20V or LSVtec may be slightly more powerful and quicker but there is absolutely no way they will be as reliable nor stand up to the abuse a TypeR will.

Besides, to build one PROPERLY you are going to spend the SAME if not MORE to build a B20V or LSVtec which will run with a C5. $3500-$4000 will buy you a C5 these days. Go price out a proper engine build on a B20V or LSVtec and then add the price of a LSD trans. Trust me, its going to be more than 4K if you're building it properly.

i has a ls with a gsr tranny already.

You have some messed up values there. A complete ITR swap WITH trans is like 4K these days. Type R heads can be found for $700-$1000 depending on condition.

Any LSvtec you build for a grand is going to suck, don't forget you need to get it tuned as well.

^^ you guys are right on the reliability issue... im only referring to my research i did like months ago.. lol :D
Its better off you do a K20.. but whichever :P

I only didnt want my LS to go to waste cuz it only has 93k on it. Its from a 2000 SE.. but a full swap would do justice in the end to lasting longer. But depends on how you build it I guess.

the thing is. i already have the gsr tranny installed. so how much do you think it will cost me to get all done and installed. and how much is tunning.

ls vtec for a grand LOL let us know how that works out for you

To do it right you're still going to be 2K or so. Don't forget while its apart you should do timing belt and water pump. And then when its apart you might as well have the head cleaned and have new valve guides and seals installed. How many K on the bottom end? Because you're now going to be revving the piss out of it you may want to have it gone through as well.

OR

You can pick up a JDM Type R for 3500-4K, test it for compression and toss it in the car.

Sell your LS and GSR trans for $1000 or so add your 2K minimum that you were going to spend on your build and you're only a few hundred bucks from having a completely solid C5 which is going to be much more reliable and gleefully rev to 8 grand for you on a daily basis.

Once you get bored of it, toss on a decent header, exhaust, some cams and a good tune and you'll be approaching 200whp reliably.

Also don't forget if you ever want to part your car its MUCH easier to sell a legit type R over a frank engine.

just for the bottom end, expect to pay 1000 or more for parts, hardware and machine work alone. that's if you plan on building something that'll survive more than a few trips to 8000 rpm

well i was talking to nick, from --------. and he told me he can sell me a b16 head with the pistons. for $600 bucks. and the ls vtec kit for $120. so what else do i need apart from those to make an ls vtec? i talked to nbk, about chipping my ecu for me already.

also. for the mean time, i dont really rip my car to 8k rpm. to be honest. i just want more power when i need to. but may plan to in the future. its going to hit the tracks later, but not for a little bit.

JDMike did it for a grand, he says it seems to run great. but i dont know.

i just pit a new timing belt and water pump like 2 months ago

are you sure your cylinders aren't out of round? if they are you'll more than likely have to bore out the cylinders. and if you're replace the pistons, you're gonna have to tear apart the block which means you'll need new hardware and bearings. it would be stupid to reuse that ----. the ls/vtec's weak point is the main bearings connecting rods and connecting rod bolts. to avoid grenading it like all the other poorly built ls/vtecs it would be wise to toss in some ARP hardware and some Tri-metal bearings like the type-r's use. now i'm not sure if Uzair can do tuning but you do realize that there's no basemap to an engine that honda never made, right? it better be more than just chipped cuz the characteristics of an LS/vtec are like no other vtec engine. the wrong map on your ecu can destoy it

if you're not to rev to 8k there's no point in doing the ls/vtec because that's where you gotta head towards to make peak power. if you plan on tracking later why not take the time now to build it properly. there's no rush to get you engine in the car so you can drive it like an old lady

he also said he had the pistons, bearings and hardware replaced....for that price, it's hard for me to believe. if in fact that he did get it done then i would guess alot of shortcuts were taken. he say is runs great now but will he say the same a year down the road? i highly doubt it.

you'll have to put another timing belt and water pump in. you'll need the GSR timing belt for the ls/vtec and if you run that belt you'll need the 22T water pump to go with it. again, since your goal is to make it as cheap as possible you probably could run an LS belt but chances are it'll on really tight which will cause problems later, big problems.

Trust me, you'll want to go to 8K all the time.

Listen to Buff4Prez, he's been through this and almost has his build done. If you're going to do it, do it once and do it right. His build is killer and will work exceptionally well because he's doing it properly. My props to him, I took the easy way out :D

The day you pull out of the garage where you get it done, you will pull 8K... dont fool yourself...

I personally wouldn't go with a frank set-up for one reason, peace of mind... with my current set-up, thanks to nick at --------, i rev mindlessly to 8K + (as long as i can get traction ;) ), worry free......

personally im all for reliability... I recommend getting a 98+ JDM ITR Swap... if you don't got the loot, start saving those pennies...

okay, well i probably do plan to rip it to 8k, after riding in nbk's civic. i see what you guys mean. So what im probably going to do is buy part by part. want to still get the best deal possible. but im going to sit on the parts and get what i need. then get it installed. the issue with me is. i dont have 4k to drop in my car. but buying 200 to 600 dollar parts at a time isnt too bad. can someone list out what parts i need, including the average price range i will get for the parts. I was talking to some other ppl, and i was told i can get a proper job done with tunning for 1.5k. but thats with just tossing a gsr head, type r cams, running on stock pistons.

What's the difference between buying parts $400-$600 at a time or just taking that money and putting it into a bank account instead of buying parts?

There is abolutely ZERO difference and look at it this way, once you have the 4K you buy an engine and you're up and running. Buying piece by piece you still have to put it all together after you have all the parts.

if an lsv/b20v were set up with the same c.r. as a usdm c5, it would make alot more power than any c1/c5 from idle to revlimiter. as for reliability, a set of arp rod bolts and rm balancing rounds up the equation. when built properly, an lsv is just as reliable as a c1/c5. people just don't know. they just follow the internet uckery and believe the b.s. that hounds lsv's. frig i know of a few b20v's at 85mm still running hard with 30K of dd. too much misinformation to sift thru. i'm really curious how many people on this thread have actually owned an lsv?????

Go track a LSV alongside a C5 for a season and see which one fares best.

You didn't mention changing out the pistons for a B20V. Just notching them is not a solution.

Again, for the same or less money a C5 is the way to go, especially if you're tracking the car.

Why would u toss that on a stock ls block unless u boosting that your not getting anywhere

best bet is to save up and buy a C5

+1...
you can't compare the longevity of a frank set up to a factory produced unit... franks lack the QA, research and development put in to factory manufactured honda motors.....

the difference between me and you, i'm not good with saving money lol.

gather the parts slowly then. that's what i did. i did the machine work almost a year ago. if you want it done right don't rush it