B18B or LS/Vtec
04-21-2010, 06:54 PM
#1
B18B or LS/Vtec
By the end of summer i am looking forward to getting an engine swap done as i feel my current motor n tranny are about to give in, as i am hearing knocking noises.
I'm debating whether to get another b18b and Ls tranny or go with a LS/vtec and LS tranny.
the previous owner said the engine has about 200K on it, so i dont know if my current bottom is in the condition to be used in a LS/vtec.
how much am i looking at for a proper LS/vtec (no slap on job), including labor and all parts.
I'm debating whether to get another b18b and Ls tranny or go with a LS/vtec and LS tranny.
the previous owner said the engine has about 200K on it, so i dont know if my current bottom is in the condition to be used in a LS/vtec.
how much am i looking at for a proper LS/vtec (no slap on job), including labor and all parts.
04-21-2010, 07:10 PM
#4
04-21-2010, 07:40 PM
#6
no im going to look for someone with experience to do it.
04-21-2010, 07:44 PM
#7
There's plenty to do outside my room but I choose not to!
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: 43°04′48″N-79°04′16″
Posts: 5,142
Going to be hard to find. You think people will know what they are doing, but really they are just slapping ---- together. You want it done properly, which will cost you more then a type R engine.
Just get a type R engine and put it in. its not too hard. Me, acuratepaul and a few of his friends can help.
Just get a type R engine and put it in. its not too hard. Me, acuratepaul and a few of his friends can help.
04-23-2010, 06:50 PM
#16
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Markham
Posts: 335
what do you mean..its been done to so many tegs with no problem..just swap a gsr or b16 instead of ls/vtec or ls with boost
04-24-2010, 03:29 PM
#20
n00b
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Wilks
Posts: 41
By the end of summer i am looking forward to getting an engine swap done as i feel my current motor n tranny are about to give in, as i am hearing knocking noises.
I'm debating whether to get another b18b and Ls tranny or go with a LS/vtec and LS tranny.
the previous owner said the engine has about 200K on it, so i dont know if my current bottom is in the condition to be used in a LS/vtec.
how much am i looking at for a proper LS/vtec (no slap on job), including labor and all parts.
I'm debating whether to get another b18b and Ls tranny or go with a LS/vtec and LS tranny.
the previous owner said the engine has about 200K on it, so i dont know if my current bottom is in the condition to be used in a LS/vtec.
how much am i looking at for a proper LS/vtec (no slap on job), including labor and all parts.
Alternatively you may not need a new motor at all, get it checked out just in case your "feeling" could be wrong, hopefully its not about to give out, otherwise you won't make it to the end of summer.
04-26-2010, 09:45 AM
#22
so yesterday i go to top up my oil level and turns out my engine isn't burning oil, so im starting to think that i might not need a new engine after all. my question is would i be able to build a reliable ls/vtec on my current block or would it still be better to get another one. and also does anyone here know someone who knows how to put a LS/Vtec together for a reasonable price?
04-26-2010, 10:18 AM
#23
n00b
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: cambridge/scarborough
Posts: 78
you might as well ride out your current engine and build your ls/vtec on your own time with good parts so u know its not a slapjob if you think your engine will hold up. depending on how you drive your car that original b18 will last forever. my brothers at 325+ on original motor and im at 278 and i drive to milton from cambridge everyday for work. but imo i would just get a solid gsr engine with lsd tranny. it would be more reliable seeing as you dont have to worry about how someone else built it if you dont want to build it yourself
04-27-2010, 02:01 AM
#24
Don't fix things that aren't broken. Trust me lol. Don't even consider doing K swap. There's only 1 engine worth putting in and it's stupid expensive all said and done. Ride it out until it pops. You can find an LS bottom end for $100 with low KMs..
04-28-2010, 03:02 PM
#25
n00b
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Wilks
Posts: 41
For that kind of cheddar you can almost buy a first gen GTR with AWD and over 300HP...lol
Depends what he's looking for I guess, but with a straight LS/Vtec you'll only be gaining 20-30hp. It will give the car a bit more pep top end, thats about it.
05-13-2010, 05:26 AM
#27
Well some misinformation here. So I shall post a long answer...lol
To begin with ls transmission with ls/vtec or any other vtec motor should not be used. It'll be very slow. Been there, done that. Trust me.
What is proper ls/vtec build? Well the few main differences are: rod/stroke ratio, oil squirters and a girdle. Otherwise the blocks are same really.
Oil squirters can be added with some minor machining work and a girdle can be installed also. But is it really necessary? There are many debates over this. Kids who slap a b16 head with type R cams on, use type R computer and rev the living hell out of it always say no since its not reliable and they send rods out the block. (duh)
If you are on a budget and aren't planning on revving high, my suggestion would be do this: get a gsr head since the rev limit is lower, and vtec lobe profile is designed for slightly lower rpm. This will eliminate the need to rev to 8500-9000rpm which is NOT safe on a stock ls block. Get a gsr oil pump to supply some more oil, also a gsr water pump and timing belt. It will all bolt up. Congrats with a good tune, and I don't know if I can stress this enough, tune is key! With a good tune you can rev to 7500-7800rpm safe.
I've seen dyno graphs of a stock B20 block and gsr head with whatever I named above push 180whp. That was with a skunk2 intake manifold. If you use the gsr intake manifold, the power starts dropping at around 7800rpms. Now this is obviously a different motor. But keep in mind B20 redline is 6500rpm.
With a b18b1 and gsr head 170-180whp is achievable safely without many modifications. (and the hating starts now...) as I said, if you do not feel safe and want to have a bit more "protection" you can get oil squirters installed which will decrease the temperatures in the block. The squirters really just spray oil at the base of the piston to keep it cool.
So...again budget build would include a gsr/b16 head, b16 or gsr transmission, a better clutch if you still have a stock one, gsr oil pump/water pump/timing belt, oil feed line (golden eagle sells a kit with dowel pins, head gasket and oil line for 250$ I think) and most importantly a good tune. Andrew at HiVelocity in oakville would be my suggestion, very well educated and has been around hondas for a bit too long, dyno tuning costs 600$ but every penny is worth it. Don't try to tune it yourself or get a friend to do it. You will just end up with a dent in the hood from a rod.
Now few more things that could help the build would be some arp head studs and arp rod bolts. I wouldn't be very concerned about the rod bolts but would greatly suggest using arp head studs. I may be wrong but I believe (like on many other cars), the head bolts extend when torqued down to spec which allows it to adjust due to heat or cold. Once you remove those bolts you cannot reuse them. Atleast that's how it is with vw's. I would think its the same with hondas. Either way, a good idea to upgrade. Little things like cam seals, fresh oil/oil filter/coolant will also be necessary but since you mentioned that you need somebody to install this, you have nothing to worry about.
So I think it sums it up, I can go on but I'm sure no one will read it when I write a 2 page essay.
Ps. B16 usually dyno about 120whp-125whp...yes most of them are dead because kids beat on them. Even my old b18a1 which was rebuilt with a b17 transmission pulled on few every b16.
Choice is yours.
To begin with ls transmission with ls/vtec or any other vtec motor should not be used. It'll be very slow. Been there, done that. Trust me.
What is proper ls/vtec build? Well the few main differences are: rod/stroke ratio, oil squirters and a girdle. Otherwise the blocks are same really.
Oil squirters can be added with some minor machining work and a girdle can be installed also. But is it really necessary? There are many debates over this. Kids who slap a b16 head with type R cams on, use type R computer and rev the living hell out of it always say no since its not reliable and they send rods out the block. (duh)
If you are on a budget and aren't planning on revving high, my suggestion would be do this: get a gsr head since the rev limit is lower, and vtec lobe profile is designed for slightly lower rpm. This will eliminate the need to rev to 8500-9000rpm which is NOT safe on a stock ls block. Get a gsr oil pump to supply some more oil, also a gsr water pump and timing belt. It will all bolt up. Congrats with a good tune, and I don't know if I can stress this enough, tune is key! With a good tune you can rev to 7500-7800rpm safe.
I've seen dyno graphs of a stock B20 block and gsr head with whatever I named above push 180whp. That was with a skunk2 intake manifold. If you use the gsr intake manifold, the power starts dropping at around 7800rpms. Now this is obviously a different motor. But keep in mind B20 redline is 6500rpm.
With a b18b1 and gsr head 170-180whp is achievable safely without many modifications. (and the hating starts now...) as I said, if you do not feel safe and want to have a bit more "protection" you can get oil squirters installed which will decrease the temperatures in the block. The squirters really just spray oil at the base of the piston to keep it cool.
So...again budget build would include a gsr/b16 head, b16 or gsr transmission, a better clutch if you still have a stock one, gsr oil pump/water pump/timing belt, oil feed line (golden eagle sells a kit with dowel pins, head gasket and oil line for 250$ I think) and most importantly a good tune. Andrew at HiVelocity in oakville would be my suggestion, very well educated and has been around hondas for a bit too long, dyno tuning costs 600$ but every penny is worth it. Don't try to tune it yourself or get a friend to do it. You will just end up with a dent in the hood from a rod.
Now few more things that could help the build would be some arp head studs and arp rod bolts. I wouldn't be very concerned about the rod bolts but would greatly suggest using arp head studs. I may be wrong but I believe (like on many other cars), the head bolts extend when torqued down to spec which allows it to adjust due to heat or cold. Once you remove those bolts you cannot reuse them. Atleast that's how it is with vw's. I would think its the same with hondas. Either way, a good idea to upgrade. Little things like cam seals, fresh oil/oil filter/coolant will also be necessary but since you mentioned that you need somebody to install this, you have nothing to worry about.
So I think it sums it up, I can go on but I'm sure no one will read it when I write a 2 page essay.
Ps. B16 usually dyno about 120whp-125whp...yes most of them are dead because kids beat on them. Even my old b18a1 which was rebuilt with a b17 transmission pulled on few every b16.
Choice is yours.
05-13-2010, 08:46 AM
#29
hey scrider, i talked to mechanic and he told me he'll build da ls/vtec for $1500 with parts, labor and a tune. only thing i have to get him is the head and he'll machine it down for me, i was thinking of going with a b16a, do you know how much power i would be putting down with the b16 head? and would you suggest i spend about 2 or 3 hundred more and get a gsr head?
05-13-2010, 02:12 PM
#31
Anthony wtf do you mean there is no gsr/itr oil pump?
Gsr oil pump is not the same as ls.
Since you know everything mr mechanic why do you keep bbm'ing me all the time with questions. So don't speak of things you don't know.
Redtegra, the price is reasonable. What kind of software Will your mechanic use?
And power...it all depends on the tuner.
Btw you mentioned machining head, if you are planning on shaving the head, you must be very careful, may have valve to piston clearance. Also would be a good idea to get some cam gears if you do end up shaving the head.
Gsr oil pump is not the same as ls.
Since you know everything mr mechanic why do you keep bbm'ing me all the time with questions. So don't speak of things you don't know.
Redtegra, the price is reasonable. What kind of software Will your mechanic use?
And power...it all depends on the tuner.
Btw you mentioned machining head, if you are planning on shaving the head, you must be very careful, may have valve to piston clearance. Also would be a good idea to get some cam gears if you do end up shaving the head.
05-13-2010, 02:32 PM
#33
Redtegra, the price is reasonable. What kind of software Will your mechanic use?
And power...it all depends on the tuner.
Btw you mentioned machining head, if you are planning on shaving the head, you must be very careful, may have valve to piston clearance. Also would be a good idea to get some cam gears if you do end up shaving the head.
05-19-2010, 07:13 PM
#36
n00b
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Wilks
Posts: 41
hey scrider, i talked to mechanic and he told me he'll build da ls/vtec for $1500 with parts, labor and a tune. only thing i have to get him is the head and he'll machine it down for me, i was thinking of going with a b16a, do you know how much power i would be putting down with the b16 head? and would you suggest i spend about 2 or 3 hundred more and get a gsr head?
To see how much you would actually gain, you would need to check it at the dyno before and after.
BTW how good is your mechanic? How many LS/Vtec swaps has he built and tuned? I might know someone that's interested.
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