B18B or LS/Vtec
 

By the end of summer i am looking forward to getting an engine swap done as i feel my current motor n tranny are about to give in, as i am hearing knocking noises.
I'm debating whether to get another b18b and Ls tranny or go with a LS/vtec and LS tranny.

the previous owner said the engine has about 200K on it, so i dont know if my current bottom is in the condition to be used in a LS/vtec.

how much am i looking at for a proper LS/vtec (no slap on job), including labor and all parts.

2500$

am i looking at 2500 with a new block or using my current block?

Start reading.

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1676914

If your using your current block, Your looking around 1000$ to make it all nice.

Are you going to do it urself.

the problem is i dont know if my block is in the best of condition, if i am able to use i probably will.
no im going to look for someone with experience to do it.

Going to be hard to find. You think people will know what they are doing, but really they are just slapping ---- together. You want it done properly, which will cost you more then a type R engine.

Just get a type R engine and put it in. its not too hard. Me, acuratepaul and a few of his friends can help.

lol wish i could afford a type r.
currently my price range is $2500.

If you do, do a LS/Vtec make sure you get rods with it too. Well it really depends on how you drive it also

If your budget is 2500, get a gsr engine then

+1 ^ if your keeping your tranny you should be fine with that budget

jackson racing supercharger! i love the whine. If not...LS/VTEC bro, thats my opinion

cheap. reliable. fast.
pick two.

if you don't want a slap job ls/vtec, build one, don't buy one.

for the price it is to do a LS/VTEC swap, you mite as well spend the few extra $100's and just get a B16 swaped in, or a GRS.

b16 in a teg with ls tranny is stupid...even with b16 tranny b16's and tegs aren't meant to go together, the cars to heavy for that kindda torque.

what do you mean..its been done to so many tegs with no problem..just swap a gsr or b16 instead of ls/vtec or ls with boost

K20....lol

Way over priced

it's worth it

I would just grab another B18b, a used one in good shape is $400 bucks and should last you 300K+

Alternatively you may not need a new motor at all, get it checked out just in case your "feeling" could be wrong, hopefully its not about to give out, otherwise you won't make it to the end of summer.

hi
 

am i looking at 2500 with a new block or using my current block?

Tinting

so yesterday i go to top up my oil level and turns out my engine isn't burning oil, so im starting to think that i might not need a new engine after all. my question is would i be able to build a reliable ls/vtec on my current block or would it still be better to get another one. and also does anyone here know someone who knows how to put a LS/Vtec together for a reasonable price?

you might as well ride out your current engine and build your ls/vtec on your own time with good parts so u know its not a slapjob if you think your engine will hold up. depending on how you drive your car that original b18 will last forever. my brothers at 325+ on original motor and im at 278 and i drive to milton from cambridge everyday for work. but imo i would just get a solid gsr engine with lsd tranny. it would be more reliable seeing as you dont have to worry about how someone else built it if you dont want to build it yourself

Don't fix things that aren't broken. Trust me lol. Don't even consider doing K swap. There's only 1 engine worth putting in and it's stupid expensive all said and done. Ride it out until it pops. You can find an LS bottom end for $100 with low KMs..

Given a budget of just $2500 I don't think he will be able to go K-series, I have heard it can cost over 10K for motor and labour/tuning.
For that kind of cheddar you can almost buy a first gen GTR with AWD and over 300HP...lol

Depends what he's looking for I guess, but with a straight LS/Vtec you'll only be gaining 20-30hp. It will give the car a bit more pep top end, thats about it.

agreed:yeah:

Well some misinformation here. So I shall post a long answer...lol

To begin with ls transmission with ls/vtec or any other vtec motor should not be used. It'll be very slow. Been there, done that. Trust me.

What is proper ls/vtec build? Well the few main differences are: rod/stroke ratio, oil squirters and a girdle. Otherwise the blocks are same really.

Oil squirters can be added with some minor machining work and a girdle can be installed also. But is it really necessary? There are many debates over this. Kids who slap a b16 head with type R cams on, use type R computer and rev the living hell out of it always say no since its not reliable and they send rods out the block. (duh)

If you are on a budget and aren't planning on revving high, my suggestion would be do this: get a gsr head since the rev limit is lower, and vtec lobe profile is designed for slightly lower rpm. This will eliminate the need to rev to 8500-9000rpm which is NOT safe on a stock ls block. Get a gsr oil pump to supply some more oil, also a gsr water pump and timing belt. It will all bolt up. Congrats with a good tune, and I don't know if I can stress this enough, tune is key! With a good tune you can rev to 7500-7800rpm safe.

I've seen dyno graphs of a stock B20 block and gsr head with whatever I named above push 180whp. That was with a skunk2 intake manifold. If you use the gsr intake manifold, the power starts dropping at around 7800rpms. Now this is obviously a different motor. But keep in mind B20 redline is 6500rpm.

With a b18b1 and gsr head 170-180whp is achievable safely without many modifications. (and the hating starts now...) as I said, if you do not feel safe and want to have a bit more "protection" you can get oil squirters installed which will decrease the temperatures in the block. The squirters really just spray oil at the base of the piston to keep it cool.

So...again budget build would include a gsr/b16 head, b16 or gsr transmission, a better clutch if you still have a stock one, gsr oil pump/water pump/timing belt, oil feed line (golden eagle sells a kit with dowel pins, head gasket and oil line for 250$ I think) and most importantly a good tune. Andrew at HiVelocity in oakville would be my suggestion, very well educated and has been around hondas for a bit too long, dyno tuning costs 600$ but every penny is worth it. Don't try to tune it yourself or get a friend to do it. You will just end up with a dent in the hood from a rod.

Now few more things that could help the build would be some arp head studs and arp rod bolts. I wouldn't be very concerned about the rod bolts but would greatly suggest using arp head studs. I may be wrong but I believe (like on many other cars), the head bolts extend when torqued down to spec which allows it to adjust due to heat or cold. Once you remove those bolts you cannot reuse them. Atleast that's how it is with vw's. I would think its the same with hondas. Either way, a good idea to upgrade. Little things like cam seals, fresh oil/oil filter/coolant will also be necessary but since you mentioned that you need somebody to install this, you have nothing to worry about.

So I think it sums it up, I can go on but I'm sure no one will read it when I write a 2 page essay.


Ps. B16 usually dyno about 120whp-125whp...yes most of them are dead because kids beat on them. Even my old b18a1 which was rebuilt with a b17 transmission pulled on few every b16.

Choice is yours.

I hope you know there is no such thing as a type R or GSR oil pump...they are all the same

hey scrider, i talked to mechanic and he told me he'll build da ls/vtec for $1500 with parts, labor and a tune. only thing i have to get him is the head and he'll machine it down for me, i was thinking of going with a b16a, do you know how much power i would be putting down with the b16 head? and would you suggest i spend about 2 or 3 hundred more and get a gsr head?

Get a gsr head

Anthony wtf do you mean there is no gsr/itr oil pump?

Gsr oil pump is not the same as ls.

Since you know everything mr mechanic why do you keep bbm'ing me all the time with questions. So don't speak of things you don't know.

Redtegra, the price is reasonable. What kind of software Will your mechanic use?
And power...it all depends on the tuner.

Btw you mentioned machining head, if you are planning on shaving the head, you must be very careful, may have valve to piston clearance. Also would be a good idea to get some cam gears if you do end up shaving the head.

let me shre this.

http://www.team-integra.net/forum/di...g+Common+Topic

:)

i believe with Neptune, im getting it done by hi velocity. they will also be the ones machining the head for me.

^^ great choice.
Now for whatever money you have left get an sir/gsr transmission and a new clutch, and you'll be set.

And anthony, the washer is important. It creates more pressure. So just running ls pump may/will do some damage.

Like I said you will gain 20-30hp in the top end. If you go GSR head, you might be able to bring it closer to 30, of course depends what other mods you have with it - intake, full exhaust, cams etc..

To see how much you would actually gain, you would need to check it at the dyno before and after.

BTW how good is your mechanic? How many LS/Vtec swaps has he built and tuned? I might know someone that's interested.